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December 09, 2018, 09:47:09 PM

Author Topic: Arfcom ffl guys pissing me off!  (Read 465 times)

Offline Thursdaymike

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Arfcom ffl guys pissing me off!
« on: May 20, 2017, 04:54:06 AM »
Posted a question about what health insurance people are using for their own business cause i am looking at jumping from my job to full time firearms dealer. I didnt get one answer. Instead i got a bunch of guys telling me how this is the worst time ever to sell guns. Are you serious. I can build up the same inventory for a third of the cost. Yes the profits will be lower also but i can have more selection to offer people on the spot which turns into more sales. This is the best time to buy a gun. You have to buy from someone so why cant it be me. If the prices are competitive and i offer good local service why wouldnt someone buy from me. Sounds like a bunch of whiney ninnys that bought their inventory while prices were high and are losing the farm right now. Im sorry but thats business. Do you buy stock when its at an all time high. Maybe i should wait for another gun scare, that way there wont even be any inventory for me to purchase. I can load up right now. Plus who knows in another 4 years my investment could possibly quadruple with a democrat in the white house (i hope not). RANT OVER!
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 04:55:06 AM by Thursdaymike »
 

Offline KnurledNut

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Re: Arfcom ffl guys pissing me off!
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2017, 07:27:42 AM »
If you can swing it, I would wait until the Obamacare crap has been settled.
 

Offline SmartDrug

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Re: Arfcom ffl guys pissing me off!
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2017, 07:28:00 AM »
Are you looking at opening a storefront or doing transfers and the like out of the home?
 

Offline Thursdaymike

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Re: Arfcom ffl guys pissing me off!
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2017, 08:35:00 AM »
Home based for now but hopefully store front soon. My job pays me well and i would be taking at least a 50 percent cut by my guessing on income. Unfortunately i am gone for a month then only home for a few days right now. So im having to weigh the differences. If i were off on the weekends i wouldnt even think about leaving, but that isnt an option. We havent had a schedule for 3 years and right now im working 7 1/2 hours from home.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 08:40:15 AM by Thursdaymike »
 

Offline Rocky59

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Re: Arfcom ffl guys pissing me off!
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2017, 02:13:27 PM »
Home based for now but hopefully store front soon. My job pays me well and i would be taking at least a 50 percent cut by my guessing on income. Unfortunately i am gone for a month then only home for a few days right now. So im having to weigh the differences. If i were off on the weekends i wouldnt even think about leaving, but that isnt an option. We havent had a schedule for 3 years and right now im working 7 1/2 hours from home.

I'm self employed and have been for a while, honestly the only deal you will get that doesn't ass rape is what I like to call "Catastrophic insurance" it covers if you fall out of a southwest flight like half a body bag. honestly it probably covers more but not much lol. I have no pre existing and don't take meds, but I also never go to the doc and have no wife or kids.

With my whole family being self employed for basically the past 40 years, the best way to figure it out is to go to a broker and have them work it out for you and redo your plan every 6 months to save the most.
 

Offline Brotherbadger

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Re: Arfcom ffl guys pissing me off!
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2017, 04:20:30 PM »
You have to buy from someone so why cant it be me. If the prices are competitive and i offer good local service why wouldnt someone buy from me.

Exactly. Get your name out there and let people know what you offer and you will EASILY be selling guns right now. I always prefer to buy local if prices are competitive, but if not i'll still buy the mags/other stuff from you to make up for it.

I can't speak to when to start up your business(I'll let the other guys here give you advice on that as I've never been self employed), but I do wish you the best of luck. If you were local to me, I'd buy from ya.
 

Offline biere

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Re: Arfcom ffl guys pissing me off!
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2017, 12:08:15 PM »
Good luck on the healthcare mess, part of why I work a crappy job is cause of healthcare.  Right now I don't need it but I know what happens if you do need it.

Anyway, around here last year I finally got to buying a few guns on the net and having them shipped in.  Couple from the mills fleet farm fun and a couple lowers from fatboytactical. 

I thought I had a good deal for the first one, til it turned into one person can do the paperwork of entering them in the book and they are busy and it took a week or so to get my guns in my hands.

2nd go round I asked a lot of places about it and found a local guy who is easy to deal with but a bit high.  Then again, I guess his competition around here is kind of low.

So I think you will do alright if you get your name out there.
 

Offline windex

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Re: Arfcom ffl guys pissing me off!
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2017, 01:57:56 PM »
I had my FFL/SOT for 9 years running a home business.  A few suggestions...

-If you are an 07/02 (Manuf/SOT), you WILL have to pay ITAR.  There is no way out of it now.  Factor in that expense
-If you are a standard retail FFL/SOT, you can only assemble parts on guns people provide you, and even then it's a gray area with what the ATF considers Manuf anymore.
-Most wholesalers will ONLY sell to "brick and mortar" stores.  The few that'll sell to kitchen-table FFLs are significantly higher in price.
-Download the master list of FFLs in your area, see if the market is already saturated.  I had a problem later on in my business where hundreds of FFLs popped up and would do transfers for $5, sell for $5 over cost, etc.  Great for the consumer, but made it to where it wasn't worth doing business
-Depending on your AO, the ATF is really trying to crack down on kitchen table FFLs and FFLs as a whole; while you still get approved for the licensing, the IOI folks will write you for ANY LITTLE FUCKING VIOLATION.  Forgot a period someplace? Violation.  Many FFLs in my AO have shut down rather than deal with it.
-Money is NOT in guns, money is in accessories.  Keep in mind you'll have to compete with all of the mail order places out there that WILL undercut you.  Having a storefront is very expensive, unless you own the property.  Liability insurance, security systems, etc. 

I'm not trying to talk you out of it, I just want to make sure you know what you are getting yourself into.  If you have questions, please ask and/or hit me up directly.  There are aspects I miss of my FFL, I really don't miss the bullshit, the average customer and dealing with the IOI.

 
The following users thanked this post: cornhskr, SmartDrug

Offline cornhskr

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Re: Arfcom ffl guys pissing me off!
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2017, 02:12:45 PM »
I had my FFL/SOT for 9 years running a home business.  A few suggestions...

-If you are an 07/02 (Manuf/SOT), you WILL have to pay ITAR.  There is no way out of it now.  Factor in that expense
-If you are a standard retail FFL/SOT, you can only assemble parts on guns people provide you, and even then it's a gray area with what the ATF considers Manuf anymore.
-Most wholesalers will ONLY sell to "brick and mortar" stores.  The few that'll sell to kitchen-table FFLs are significantly higher in price.
-Download the master list of FFLs in your area, see if the market is already saturated.  I had a problem later on in my business where hundreds of FFLs popped up and would do transfers for $5, sell for $5 over cost, etc.  Great for the consumer, but made it to where it wasn't worth doing business
-Depending on your AO, the ATF is really trying to crack down on kitchen table FFLs and FFLs as a whole; while you still get approved for the licensing, the IOI folks will write you for ANY LITTLE FUCKING VIOLATION.  Forgot a period someplace? Violation.  Many FFLs in my AO have shut down rather than deal with it.
-Money is NOT in guns, money is in accessories.  Keep in mind you'll have to compete with all of the mail order places out there that WILL undercut you.  Having a storefront is very expensive, unless you own the property.  Liability insurance, security systems, etc. 

I'm not trying to talk you out of it, I just want to make sure you know what you are getting yourself into.  If you have questions, please ask and/or hit me up directly.  There are aspects I miss of my FFL, I really don't miss the bullshit, the average customer and dealing with the IOI.

Listen to this man.  The truth is in this post.
NRA Benefactor Life, 2AF Life,  Infantry.
 

Offline Thursdaymike

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Re: Arfcom ffl guys pissing me off!
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2017, 02:39:59 PM »
Going to be 07/02. My understanding is as long as i out source machining to an itar company i dont hace to be registered with itar. My atf agent was cool af. I guess i will see in a couple weeks whether my license shows up or not. He told me to expect it in the mail. I had all my stuff together, dba sales tax llc papers, ready for him to look at so that might of helped.
 

Offline windex

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Re: Arfcom ffl guys pissing me off!
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2017, 04:08:27 PM »
Going to be 07/02. My understanding is as long as i out source machining to an itar company i dont hace to be registered with itar. My atf agent was cool af. I guess i will see in a couple weeks whether my license shows up or not. He told me to expect it in the mail. I had all my stuff together, dba sales tax llc papers, ready for him to look at so that might of helped.

1st thing: Agents and IOI's are very different.  IOIs are not agents, they are just paper pushers who will own your soul as long as you have your FFL.  They seem cool, but they are out to fuck you.

2nd: YOUR FFL is responsible for paying ITAR, not the place you outsource to.  Remember, now manufacturing is considered painting guns, assembling lowers, putting a stock on a receiver, etc; prior to sale.  Don't try to skirt the law, you will be fucked - ATF went after a friend of mine over some stupid bullshit, he's now a prohibited possessor and on probation for years.

3rd: If you are not doing machine work yourself, you will not be competitive in the market.  Remember whenever you pay someone else to do work for you that you turn around and sell, there is nothing keeping them from cutting the middle man (you) out and making more profit for themselves.

I've seen several shops that farmed stuff out where eventually the machine shop figured it out and started cutting out the middle man to make more profits - further, you are at the whim of the machine shop.  If they get busy, or they want to make you feel the pressure to raise prices, therefore slowing supply until that happens, you are fucked.  There's a reason Gemtech does "runs" of silencers.  Hint, they farm the parts out and have to rely on other shops to provide - fortunately, they have a good working relationship with their primary parts suppliers.


As a man who was a millionaire many times over, who opened a gun shop, once told me.  Wanna make a little money in the gun industry? You better start with a lot.


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If you were doing this as a hobby business, my feedback would be much more welcoming.  That's what I did and it was enough to piss me off - I put in a LOT of hours and frankly the money wasn't worth it.  I was the primary NFA distributer in my city/southern half of my state for 4-5 years before other people jumped in.  I used to buy and sell used PD guns, new saiga shotguns, anything that was "hip" that I could get my hands on.  I bought suppressors by the case, ammo... you name it.

In the end, fuck it was a pain in the ass.  I'll miss having guns that I wanted shipped straight to me (NFA or otherwise).  I miss saving money on stuff that I wanted for myself.  With that being said, you could not pay me to be a managing member or similar on an FFL again.  No way in hell.
 

Offline uafgrad

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Re: Arfcom ffl guys pissing me off!
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2017, 03:07:06 AM »
My Dad was an FFL for at least 30 years and finally let his license lapse last month

The amount of bullshit was insane

I have nothing specific to offer you other than good luck
 

Online SideCarGT

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Re: Arfcom ffl guys pissing me off!
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2017, 09:24:04 AM »
I let my FFL lapse years ago for some of the reasons mentioned, but if you have a solid business plan that is based on your own diligence and facts for your area and business, best wishes for you and your business. People do make money in the industry and finding your niche where you aren't subject to the negligible margins may be the key for you.

But, back to your question about health insurance.  You may want to check out healthcare expense sharing programs as an alternative to straight insurance. My BIL has been using one of the Christian related plans for a number of years now for himself and his family of 5 kids. They have been satisfied and it saved them a fortune over traditional insurance.